[scribus] Lost in hyphenation

[JLuc]

Le 11/06/2021 à 14:48, Gregory Pittman a écrit :
 >>> https://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=16582
 >> Anybody tried ?

 > I think maybe your expectations of what you will get from hyphenation are too high. Especially when you have 
relatively narrow text frames, hyphenation will generally not show a very pleasing result. Newspapers and other 
publications with narrow columns heavily use adjustments in letter and word spacing to achieve even borders. In Scribus, 
full justification helps this out.

Thanks for having a look Gregory.
Using "adjustments in letter and word spacing" provides higher quality than I expect :-)

When there is a simple hyphenation algorithm that applies with available data
my expectation are that Scribus applies it.
Available situation is :
- hyphenation dictionary
- text words of a SLA document
- styles hyphenation parameters of the document (notably language and "minimum size of hyphenated parts of words")
- scribus computation result for all possible parts of text rendered length
Using these, a possible hyphen applies or doesnt, and scribus should do as concluded.

I've explained the process that lead me to think there is an issue,
but here it is with more details :
See uploaded document
- Text only features common words. No rare vocabulary that would risk to be unknown from hyphen dict.
- Defined style specify "french langage" + "minimum length of part of hyphenated word" is "3".
With this situation, all red words should be hyphenated allthough scribus doesnt

"Proof" is : when applying a manual conditional hyphen
at the right place (= same place as the hyphen dictionary certainly does),
then scribus DOES hyphen.
But without applying an explicit conditional hyphen, scribus doesnt hyphen (for the red words).

Possible causes i see are :
1- scribus doesnt apply the hyphen dictionary on that word
2- OR french used hyphen dictionary is wrong (i didnt think of that, i should check, but that would be lots of mistakes)
3- OR scribus applies a bigger minimum cut part of hyphenate word (biger than recorded in parameters),
that would wrongly prevent it from hyphenating here
4- OR scribus does an error when computing the length of texts to check whether the possible hyphen applies or not
5... OR some other cause, as eg "there is something i dont understand".

 > Also, I'm not sure I understand your instructions.
 > Many of the words in red are in the middle of a line, and where is the hyphenation point in "toutes"?
 > Or for that matter, why would you want to hyphenate "toutes"?

Oulalalala :-/
When i saved the document to upload it and when I created the PDF,
none of the words were in the middle of a line.
I thought i had a document and way to reproduce the issue
but I didnt check the PDF before uploading it
and now i see that the PDF is different than what i saw on screen :
the PDF includes red hyphenated words which werent hyphenated on screen.
Does it means that some hyphenation is done under cover for PDF export ?
Beside, when i now open the uploaded SLA, i see that some of the red words
also appear hyphenated, when they werent at the time i did the report.
It means that all hyphenatiuon is not done when requested,
and some more hyphenation is done when closing and re-opening a document ?
Some, but not all, because some words remain unhyphenated.
These behaviours make it more difficult to understand and use scribus automatic hyphenation...
that's also part of why i'm "lost in hyphenation".

===

I uploaded a new simplified document : only 1 frame on 1st page.
Required hyphenation is red word "quelques" that should hyphenate as "quel-ques".
Instead of a PDF I've uploaded 2 screenshots :
- one after applying automatic scribus hyphenation : it does not hyphen quel-ques
- one after manualy adding a conditional hyphen : hyphenation applies nicely
as should also do Scribus automatic hyphenation.

Can you reproduce this ?

PS : Having a length of 4 letters on each cut-word eliminates the third of the listed possible causes for this misbehaviour.

JLuc