[scribus] Windows can't crash - very strange comment

John Culleton john at wexfordpress.com
Tue Mar 24 19:21:27 CET 2009

On Tuesday 24 March 2009 10:45:04 am Jeffrey Silverman 
> Once again, we've diverted off-topic. But I think that's
> fine, I mean, I'm certainly not one to talk.
> Anyway, I thought I'd chime in. Me: I am a big Linux and
> f/oss advocate. I don't use Windows (or Mac OS, ftm) if I
> can help it. And mostly, I can help it. I work for a
> company that hosts and supports a major OSS product for
> the education market. I've put "environment must be
> amenable to use of open source software" on my resume. I
> won't even apply for jobs that will force me to use a
> Windows desktop (and luckily I have been able to do this
> successfully)
> However, and I know these comments have mostly been
> tongue-in-cheek[1] but I am not an advocate of OS
> bashing, even if it is for sound reasons. I have been
> using Linux for more than 10 years, and exclusively[2],
> at home *and* at work, for at least 7 years, as both a
> desktop OS and a server OS. In that time, I have
> experienced many problems, including crashes and
> instability. OTOH, Windows 2000, Windows XP (all patched
> and updated) hardly ever crashes. So, some points to
> bring thsi discussion closer to reality:
>  - Linux is not the OS, it is the kernel. The OS includes
> all that other stuff, too, so you can actually use it.
> I've seen comments pretty close to "Linux OS never
> crashes" and that is patently false. If X crashes (and it
> certainly does), does that mean that your OS has not
> crashed? It is splitting hairs, but from the POV of the
> desktop user, if X has crashed, the OS has crashed.
>  - Windows 2000 and XP are actually *extremely* stable
> OSes. I can't vouch for Vista. The days of BSODs and
> other lockups and crashes ended, mostly, with the EOL of
> Win 98.
>  - Windows crashes and Linux crashes usually amount to
> the same thing: a driver issue. Most frequently video
> drivers. Given sample installations of Windows XP with
> MS-blessed drivers and a Linux installation with the most
> stable possible driver versions (not sure about
> blessings), neither OS will crash, pretty much.
>  - Most comparisons of Windows vs Linux are so apples vs
> oranges as to be very unrealistic. This goes for
> comparisons made by both the Windows-promoting MS
> monoculture and the Linux-promoting F/OSS culture. I have
> seen very few, if any, good comparisons made with very
> similar starting points. Similar machines, similar
> software installed, similar driver stability, etc. Most
> comparisons can be thrown right out the window (no pun
> intended)
>  - Many F/OSS products, while great, are still also very
> unstable or buggy. Biggest case in point is Firefox.
> Firefox (or "The Web Browser") is probably the single
> most used app on today's desktop. However, and this goes
> for my Windows using coworkers, FF is unstable as hell.
> It crashes at least daily. Internet Explorer, while sucky
> for web developers, sucky for maintaining desktop
> security, and sucky for a number of other reasons, at
> least doesn't crash. I'm talking IE6. Dunno about
> stability of IE7, but I'm guessing its comparable.
> YIKES! I cannot believe I am defending Microsoft, but
> there it is. I know the community here tends to be
> anti-microsoft, as many F/OSS communities are, but really
> I prefer to see balanced arguments and not just plain ol'
> bashing.
> Thanks! Seeya! Later!
> [1] Whatever that means. I've never really got that
> expression. [2] With some minor exceptions that couldn't
> be helped
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Fritz Eichelhardt 
<f.eichelhardt at web.de> wrote:
> > hi all,
> >
> >> From: Roger <hovergo at net-tech.com.au>
> >> Subject: [scribus] Windows can't crash - very strange
> >> comment
> >>
> >> > > >> I have never heard of anything else crashing on
> >> > > >> a Windows platform.
> >> > >
> >> > > as far as i know, windows can't even crash, unless
> >> > > you use very unreliable
> >> > > software like scribus.
> >>
> >> Either that is the most unfair comment I have heard or
> >> it is a piece of humour, can't decide..
> >
> > at first, let me complete the citation:
> >> > it's a pity, but i can't afford this lovely peace of
> >> > software and have to use
> >> > linux instead.
> >> >
> >> > by pure luck, scribus/linux never crashes here.
> >
> > if that was meant as a (unfair) comment, it would be
> > very stupid as well. an os that can be crashed by a
> > software, is crap, not an os.
> >
> > i have to admit: even my few remained friends find my
> > humour sometimes somewhat strange, but they got used to
> > it.
> >
> > btw: i write almost everthing, even my
> > (business-)letters, in scribus.
> >
> > On Saturday 21 March 2009 04:18:01 am Phil Ward wrote:
> >> helloooooo
> >>
> >> can i come and live in your world? where windows never
> >> crashes?
> >
> > shure - always welcome.
> > the name of that world is linux.
> <snip!>

On my Slackware 12.2 and previous versions of Slackware, FF 
has not been crashing.  Kmail used to crash on huge 
search-and-filter missions (hundreds or thousands of saved 
emails) but it doesn't any more. 

On covers etc. the occasional Scribus freeze or crash is 
best handled by fairly frequent saves of the sla file. In 
fact that should be a feature of Scribus -- timed saves to 
the original file or preferably to a different named backup 
file (a la Vim) with a short interval, perhaps every 5 
seconds or so, user selectable.  As I remember it was only 
an unstable version that ever crashed. 

John Culleton
Able Indexers and Typesetters

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