[scribus] Views of users

[John Beardmore]

joseph harris wrote:
> From: "John Beardmore"
>> joseph harris wrote:
>>> From: "John Beardmore"

>>> Some of us recognise the great advantages of scribus for control and 
>>> fitting the program to the need, but the learning curves are steep 
>>> and long - even if you come from familiarity with other DTP solutions 
>>> and have looked at Linux with a nervous eye.
>>
>> With Pagemaker and InDesign experience, and more or less without 
>> documentation, it only took about an hour and a half to satisfy myself 
>> that scribus could be used for our reports.
>>
>> As learning curves go, that's pretty 'down hill'.
> 
> But with this line you are hardly 'Joe Bloggs': MSc EDM (Open), B.A. 
> Chem (Oxon), CMIOSH, AIEMA, MEI ;-). Added to which your previous 
> experience looks regular as a consultant in a complex area.

Possibly, but a robust knowledge of environmental decision making 
doesn't make you an expert in DTP.


>>> Scribus appears to be a remarkable program for sorting out the 
>>> precise needs of a particular publication or document, but how many 
>>> truly need that level of sophistication?
>>
>> Well -  few people need all of the features in any software.
>>
>> Could I do our work in less feature rich software ?  Yes, but I'd 
>> spend all my time missing things. I miss quite a few things as it is !
> 
> The trend has been to combine programs into simpler work flows and to 
> reduce the need for additional programs. In that Scribus in in the 
> flow... Again the issue is not what is available, but what does each 
> individual perceive they need or can cope with.

I think that what matters is that the basic things are easy to do.
Scribus has pretty much delivered this already.

Additional stuff is a bonus as long as the basic stuff remains easy.


>>> I would say that, while the appearance of scribus is moving the right 
>>> way it looks more intimidating than many other DPT programs, and as 
>>> discussed daily on this list still contains all sorts of problems.
>>
>> I don't think it's any more intimidating that InDe or Pagemaker.
> 
> Both of which compete at the professional end of the market. Quark is 
> also a highly sophisticated program best suited to trained publishing 
> personnel.

I think all three of them are well suited to anybody who finds that WP 
doesn't give them the control over layout that they want.

I don't think they are especially sophisticated, though granted I've 
never used Quark.


> On the other hand Word is like a WP with few-click DTP 
> facilities [and plenty problems down the line ;-)].

Indeed. It was Word that first drove me to Pagemaker !


> The Serif set, which 
> become increasingly integrated, give approaching high end results for 
> relatively simple user inputs.

So how is Serif simpler to use that Pagemaker, InDe, Quark and
Scribus ?

I've never used Serif, though some of my friends speak highly of it.

I can't imagine how the user interfaces of Pagemaker, InDe and
Scribus might be much simplified ?  In each case you make a doc, stuff 
in some frames, populate them and Robert is your relative.


> Serif's PagePlus combines this with the 
> choice of a deal of user control. It is designed to be a quick fix as 
> well as a quite sophisticated tool.

So how specifically does it make either simple basic jobs, or indeed 
complex ones easier or quicker, or shorten the learning curve ?


> For a majority of users these simplicities are far preferred. For a 
> goodly number such as yourself it is the required quality of the end 
> product that makes the program choice.

I'm all for simplicity, but I'd still like to know how Serif would make 
my life easier, and for that matter, what might I loose access to ?.


>>> There is too the incredibly important issue of finding tutorial, 
>>> instruction or answers online, let alone in manual form.
>>
>> True, but that's being addressed.
> 
> And will undoubtedly increase the uptake of Scribus. The effort to move 
> in this direction is impressive and a tribute to the volunteers who have 
> created an excellent program. There remains a problem that most people 
> cannot even think beyond a blank at the term 'command line'.

I don't see Scribus users being forced to use the command line though. 
Do you ?


>>> and its continued advance is impressive. But if you are asking why 
>>> more people don't use it - especially as it is free - then you need 
>>> to understand why M$, Adobe, Serif and a host of others are so 
>>> successful in the 'expensive pretty packet' market place.
>>
>> Actually, do you know how sales of those packages compares to 
>> downloads of Scribus ?
>>
>> I wouldn't be surprised if despite being an unfinished product, 
>> scribus had a noticeable market share.
> 
> Yes, I have no doubt of that.

OK.


> But it is not linked like Word to MS and 
> the windows OS.

Nor need it be. Nor necessarily should it be.


> And that is on the vast majority of machines sold 
> because it has the most user friendly interface [and a horrible 'sort 
> your problem out' mishmash of place to go and things to do!].

I thought they were on most machines sold because of a manipulative 
marketing machine and a gullible public.

But I guess that's their choice however frustrating we may find it.

More frustrating is the situation where schools and colleges actively 
recruit microsoft accredited staff who promote corporate solutions 
because they know no better, despite 
http://www.ogc.gov.uk/oss/OSS-policy.html which sates amongst other 
assertions that:

     “UK Government will consider OSS solutions alongside
     proprietary ones in IT procurements. Contracts will be
     awarded on a value for money basis”.

The reality is that HMG and its agencies don't follow this directive, 
and show little sign of starting. And it's our taxes they are spending.


Cheers, J/.
-- 
John Beardmore, MSc EDM (Open), B.A. Chem (Oxon), CMIOSH, AIEMA, MEI
Managing Director, T4 Sustainability Limited. http://www.T4sLtd.co.uk/
Carbon Trust Consultant: Energy Audit, Carbon Footprint, Design Advice
Energy Efficiency Accreditation Scheme, (EEAS), Registered Assessor
Phone: 0845 4561332   Mobile: 07785 563116   Skype: t4sustainability