[Scribus] Colour management confusion

rockbeer bruce
Fri Nov 16 12:12:18 CET 2007

Thanks Hal for your very interesting reply.

Hal V. Engel wrote:
> OK you just answered your own question.  The reason the colors look
> different 
> is because they are different becasue they are in different color spaces. 
> In 
> order to get them to appear the same when they have the same CMYK (or RGB) 
> values they need to be in the same color space.  You can prove this to 
> yourself by pulling up an image in photoshop and assigning different
> profiles 
> to it.

Am I missing something here? It seems as though photoshop's built-in option
is essentially useless for trying to set up a colour managed workflow, as
none of the options it makes available are properly replicated in scribus.
Nonetheless I've downloaded a Eurostandard profile and configured scribus to
use that instead... and guess what? The colours still appear different to
those in photoshop.

I suspect I have to get to the bottom of why ps won't let me specify icc in
the cmyk setup dialog and force it to do so if I want this to work properly.

Hal V. Engel wrote:
> This process does not change the numeric values of any of the colors 
> in the image but the colors displayed on your monitor will change as you 
> assign different profiles.

OK I get this but unless I can get some consistency in the display of colour
it's difficult to tell whether colours are displaying differently because
they are using different profiles or because they are in fact different

Hal V. Engel wrote:
> As to why Photoshop will not let you set a CMYK profile perhaps this has 
> something to do with how old of a version you are using.

Don't think so... the icc option is there in the cmyk setup dialog, but it
is greyed out and unavailable. I've trawled the web and posted on specialist
ps boards but haven't been able to come up with an answer why this should be
so :(

Hal V. Engel wrote:
> Since your printer has advised using Eurostandard coated as your OUTPUT
> color 
> space why are you using a different profile?  I was able to find a place
> to 
> get a download of that profile.

What choice do I have? If I could configure ps and scribus to use the same
profiles I would, but this is not an option on my system...

I would be interested to know where you downloaded the eurostandard coated
profile and how you managed to convince scribus to make it available for

Hal V. Engel wrote:
> I think you would be much happer if you worked in a color space intended
> for image editing and then 
> created an output file for your printer in the color space that they want.   
> That is the normal process and most CM professionals advise against
> working 
> in a small gamut output color space like those for printers. 

Now that is an interesting comment... perhaps I've misunderstood something
really fundamental about colour management. As I understood it, I would want
to work in a colour space that approximates the final printed output so I
can be relatively confident that what I'm producing will look right when
it's printed. No?

To put it another way, if I work in a high gamut colour space then how do I
know I'm making something that won't look terrible when all the colours are
converted to printable alternatives when I create the final output file?

Could someone recommend an actual tried and tested setup for a cm workflow
between ps and scribus with the final destination being cmyk offset print?

Hal V. Engel wrote:
>> (Why is colour management so difficult, he asks plaintively...
> Since you are using Windows you need to ask Bill and company this
> question.  
> This is what we are working toward for our open systems but it will take
> us a 
> while to get there.  Because the Mac was the original machine that was
> used 
> for this type of work it's systems are more advanced and some but not all
> of 
> what you want is available there. 

I'd love a nice mac graphics workstation but sadly finances don't permit. I
also have Linux and FreeBSD systems to hand, but can't see how my workflow
would be improved by porting from photoshop running on xp to scribus running
on ubuntu... then again, maybe it would...

Hal V. Engel wrote:
> But you are correct that it would be easier if the underlaying system
> provided 
> better support and if the applications (this includes device driver too)
> used 
> that support.  But even if that was the case you would still need to have
> a 
> basic understanding of how this worked to be able to properly configure
> such 
> a system.  So even with a system like you envision there is still a 
> significant learning curve to be able to set up a proper color managed
> work 
> flow. 

Indeed... don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a shortcut. I realize this
is complicated stuff. However, I'm starting to become a little disillusioned
as I've read (virtual) reams on the subject but still seem to be missing
something fundamental. I don't think I'm stupid, but something about all
this is eluding me. Perhaps if I could get photoshop to play nicely with
it's icc option things would fall into place a little better. Anyway, the
proof will be in the pudding. This thing has to go to print next week and
when I get the colour proofs back I'll discover the truth on way or the

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