[Scribus] Colour Swatch and more questions

[Cedric Sagne]

Craig,

This is indeed some progress... Wow I am amazed then that I got such good 
results on my submitted works with so little knowledge of what I was 
actually doing... I even set a RGB pale green, changed opacity and - 
beginner?s luck I assume - got the same desired green on the final output, 
or at least similar enough to convey the right image (I was not so lucky 
with a dark green, but the leaflet was still a success).

I will ask my printer for such a home-made swatch, which will greatly reduce 
the tricky guesses.

About your previous reply about photos I have to admit you lost me.
Did you mean that it could be possible to insert an image in RGB space, 
export with a specific ICC profile and the colours would come out right on 
paper?
If I understand well, you could choose "ICC for coated paper" and could 
trust the file will be taken in alright?
Could you provide a tutorial as these remain obscure concepts still?

Sorry but I am still on the learning curve and talking about puddings, a 
4000 offset run is an expensive and rare one, not quite like sending a proof 
to a laser printer....

Thanks a lot

Cedric


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <scribus-request at nashi.altmuehlnet.de>
To: <scribus at nashi.altmuehlnet.de>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 12:00 PM
Subject: Scribus Digest, Vol 50, Issue 41


> Send Scribus mailing list submissions to
> scribus at nashi.altmuehlnet.de
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://nashi.altmuehlnet.de/mailman/listinfo/scribus
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> scribus-request at nashi.altmuehlnet.de
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> scribus-owner at nashi.altmuehlnet.de
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Scribus digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1.  Printing multiple page documents (Peter Nermander)
>   2. Re: Josh new member question (Peter Nermander)
>   3. Re: Colour Swatch and more questions (Cedric Sagne)
>   4. Re: Printing multiple page documents (Nigel Ridley)
>   5. Re: Colour Swatch and more questions (Craig Ringer)
>   6. Re: Printing multiple page documents (Craig Ringer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:10:52 +0200 (MET DST)
> From: Peter Nermander <m8130 at abc.se>
> Subject: [Scribus]  Printing multiple page documents
> To: scribus at nashi.altmuehlnet.de
> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0704180907540.15700 at atle.abc.se>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
>> How do I set up Scribus to print a 20 page small booklet (A4 paper but A5 
>> page
>> size) so that I can print it on my home printer and have, for example, 
>> page #6 on
>> the same (opposite side) piece of A4 paper as page #15 with pages #5 and 
>> #16 on
>> the 'back' (double side printing)?
>
> Just to clarify things: What you are talking about here is called 
> "imposition".
> There are several articles about it in the Scribus wiki.
>
> Normally you don't have to think about this if you are sending to a 
> printer,
> they will take care of it (usually in their RIP) since the imposition 
> depends on
> how the printed sheets will be folded and cut.
>
> /Peter
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:14:48 +0200 (MET DST)
> From: Peter Nermander <m8130 at abc.se>
> Subject: Re: [Scribus] Josh new member question
> To: scribus at nashi.altmuehlnet.de
> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0704180910550.15700 at atle.abc.se>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
>> I suspect columns of text are natoriously difficult on the web because 
>> the
>> nature of web pages and useability.
>
> But CSS also includes properies for printing.
>
> While I could accept a single 10 cm wide text column for the web (maybe 
> with a
> menu to the left and some links to similar topics to the right) it is a 
> waste of
> paper to print a single 10 cm column when you could easily fit two 8 cm 
> columns.
>
> /Peter
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:17:03 +0200
> From: "Cedric Sagne" <cedric.sagne at poeware.com>
> Subject: Re: [Scribus] Colour Swatch and more questions
> To: <scribus at nashi.altmuehlnet.de>
> Message-ID: <004e01c78189$90b3e5c0$23821b53 at cedric>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Craig,
>
> After some research on your answer, I repeat my question about a way to 
> know
> from a physical "yardstick" what your colour will look like on paper, that
> is on a specific type of paper assuming your printer uses it and does not
> take liberties with it?
> Well actually I thought this was the purpose of such colour swatches, to 
> get
> a client to pick his colours there, and be sure the output will match.
>
> I know Pantone publishes colour swatches which may be used to order 
> specific
> inks (then inserted as spot colours), but could you then tell me which 
> tool
> makes a link between a colour on the screen and the coding used there, 
> which
> I don't care if it looks good or not (and calibrating a monitor is NOT an
> option because I work on a general market laptop screen) and a final paper
> result (fortunately I do not have to work with fabric or other fancy
> physical output) which I have to be sure of... before the money is spent.
> Alright bottomposting there, not sure if I follow the etiquette.
>
>> Now, if we treated the CMYK values as (eg) SWOP Coated, and did an
>> appropriate CMYK->CMYK conversion to the press profile, that I could
>> make sense of. We don't however, and the press is very far indeed from
>> anything like SWOP Coated in its characteristics.
>
> Cedric
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:23:38 +0300
> From: Nigel Ridley <nigel at rmk.co.il>
> Subject: Re: [Scribus] Printing multiple page documents
> To: scribus at nashi.altmuehlnet.de
> Message-ID: <4625E39A.8050201 at rmk.co.il>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Peter Nermander wrote:
>>> How do I set up Scribus to print a 20 page small booklet (A4 paper but 
>>> A5 page
>>> size) so that I can print it on my home printer and have, for example, 
>>> page #6 on
>>> the same (opposite side) piece of A4 paper as page #15 with pages #5 and 
>>> #16 on
>>> the 'back' (double side printing)?
>>
>> Just to clarify things: What you are talking about here is called 
>> "imposition".
>> There are several articles about it in the Scribus wiki.
>>
>> Normally you don't have to think about this if you are sending to a 
>> printer,
>> they will take care of it (usually in their RIP) since the imposition 
>> depends on
>> how the printed sheets will be folded and cut.
>>
>> /Peter
>> _______________________________________________
>> Scribus mailing list
>> Scribus at nashi.altmuehlnet.de
>> http://nashi.altmuehlnet.de/mailman/listinfo/scribus
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for your reply but 'impositions' is not what I'm looking for. I 
> want to be
> able to print the booklets (just a few of them - it's print edition of a 
> monthly
> e-newsletter for those that don't have Internet) on my home printer (I do 
> plan on
> purchasing a Xerox Phaser in the near future).
>
> Blessings,
>
> Nigel
>
> -- 
> OliveRoot Ministries
> http://www.oliveroot.net/
>
> PrayingForIsrael.net
> http://www.prayingforisrael.net/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:35:44 +0800
> From: Craig Ringer <craig at postnewspapers.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [Scribus] Colour Swatch and more questions
> To: scribus at nashi.altmuehlnet.de
> Message-ID: <4625E670.4010607 at postnewspapers.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Cedric Sagne wrote:
>> Craig,
>>
>> After some research on your answer, I repeat my question about a way to 
>> know
>> from a physical "yardstick" what your colour will look like on paper, 
>> that
>> is on a specific type of paper assuming your printer uses it and does not
>> take liberties with it?
>
> A swatch book is useful for this, but only if you're actually sending
> true spot colours to the printer. It will not give you an accurate
> indication of how the associated CMYK colour will look, since that is
> only there as a rough approximation of the spot colour for preview 
> purposes.
>
> If you want to know how a specific CMYK colour will look on your press
> and paper, ask your printers for a swatch sheet printed from the press
> on the desired paper type. Some printers do this for a range of colours,
> so designers can pick specific CMYK values and know how they'll look on
> paper. Without this, as far as I know there IS no way to get such a
> physical yardstick for non-spot colours.
>
> See below for a detailed explanation of what a spot colour actually is,
> and why it's not as simple as a specific CMYK value.
>
>> Well actually I thought this was the purpose of such colour swatches, to 
>> get
>> a client to pick his colours there, and be sure the output will match.
>
> That's correct. However, you can only truly rely on that if you're using
> a named spot colour in your document. Putting the CMYK or RGB values
> that approximate that spot will not guarantee accurate reproduction,
> because (eg) CMYK (40,20,10,4) one press is different to CMYK
> (20,40,10,4) on another press.
>
>> I know Pantone publishes colour swatches which may be used to order 
>> specific
>> inks (then inserted as spot colours), but could you then tell me which 
>> tool
>> makes a link between a colour on the screen and the coding used there
>
> [Here's my explanation. It should be accurate, but I'd very much
> appreciate comments/corrections.]
>
> In Scribus, when you create a spot colour, it's identified by a name
> like PANTONE5512. You also provide a colour value in CMYK or RGB, but
> this is used only for preview purposes, or to export to media where spot
> colours are not supported or not used.
>
> Normally, when you send a job to a printer, you send a PDF. If you're
> using spot colours, Scribus specifies the colours *by* *name* in the
> PDF. Instead of saying "CMYK(40,20,10,4)" it'll say "MyColour". It's
> possible to pick whatever names you want, so long as you tell the
> printer what you want them to print those colours as (think: gold ink,
> varnish layers, etc). In most cases, however, you'll use widely
> recognised spot colour names from ranges like PANTONE, so the printer
> will already know what you want the spot colour to look like, and will
> have their equipment calibrated to produce an accurate match for those
> colours.
>
> The key point is that spot colours are specified by name, not colour 
> value.
>
> You can make the preview colour in Scribus bright pink, and your
> document should come out of the press with the correct spot colour
> anyway - so long as the printer RIPs the document with a RIP that
> supports spot colours and is configured to use them. Scribus still
> includes that preview colour in the PDF so that devices that want to
> process the PDF but don't know what the spot colour name means can still
> handle it. This means that if you use bright pink for the preview colour
> associated with your "Varnish" spot colour, it'll look bright pink in
> (eg) Adobe Reader, but your printer's RIP (which will have been told
> what the name "varnish" means) will process the "Varnish" colours into a
> separate plate that will then be printed with varnish.
>
> This means that your printers are very important for spot colour
> reproduction. Some spot colours can be reproduced using 4-colour
> halftones on certain media, so if your printer is calibrated for those
> spot colours it'll be able to reproduce them in normal 4-colour
> printing. However, the printer and RIP still need to be calibrated for
> those colours - they can't just use the CMYK preview values. Other spot
> colours can not be reproduced in the 4-colour gamut of most presses -
> they need special inks. For those, your printer must use an extra plate
> for the spot colour, something that usually costs extra and must be
> pre-arranged.
>
> My point is that you can't just put a spot colour in and assume that it
> will work. You need to find out from your printer what you can and can't
> use, and how you should do it.
>
>> which
>> I don't care if it looks good or not (and calibrating a monitor is NOT an
>> option because I work on a general market laptop screen)
>
> One of the advantages of using spot colours is that you don't have to
> care in the slightest how it looks on screen, or worry about
> calibration. So long as the output device (commercial printing RIP, high
> end laser printer, etc) is properly calibrated for the spot colours
> you've used, you're fine.
>
> --
> Craig Ringer
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:37:48 +0800
> From: Craig Ringer <craig at postnewspapers.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [Scribus] Printing multiple page documents
> To: scribus at nashi.altmuehlnet.de
> Message-ID: <4625E6EC.7060303 at postnewspapers.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Nigel Ridley wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your reply but 'impositions' is not what I'm looking for. I 
>> want to be
>> able to print the booklets (just a few of them - it's print edition of a 
>> monthly
>> e-newsletter for those that don't have Internet) on my home printer (I do 
>> plan on
>> purchasing a Xerox Phaser in the near future).
>
> Good plan. At least some of the Phaser range have Windows drivers
> that'll do simple booklet printing for you.
>
> --
> Craig Ringer
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Scribus mailing list
> Scribus at nashi.altmuehlnet.de
> http://nashi.altmuehlnet.de/mailman/listinfo/scribus
>
>
> End of Scribus Digest, Vol 50, Issue 41
> ***************************************
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.1/765 - Release Date: 17/04/2007 
> 17:20
>
>