[Scribus] Mulatiple page print-out

[Louis Desjardins]

Peter Nermander a ?crit :
>> Just as a side note and if it can save coding time, the juxtaposition of 
>> .pdf and .sla files into one imposition seems to me not /that/ necessary 
>> since it is so easy to create a .pdf from a .sla file right into 
>> Scribus. Unless I miss something!
> 
> You are just missing one small detail: Editing possibilities.
> 
> When importing from PDF you can not edit the content on the imposed sheet. If importing SLA you can do minor tweaking.

 From the workflow point of view, I have to disagree with you. When a 
page is imposed, it means it has been proofed and accepted. At this 
point, we are in front of contract proofs and if we have to make *any* 
change (be it as tiny as you wish), it's going to have to be proofed 
again. Who will want to be responsible if anything gets screwed up by a 
minor change that results in a change somewhere else on the page? Not 
the printer.

I don't think we need editing capabilities once imposition is done and 
if we do have them, I would not work that way neither would I suggest 
anyone to do so. But still, people just work the way they want.

My point was not to add or to avoid editing possibilities. I was 
thinking about saving coding time and considering the safeness of the 
workflow (otherwise, why would we want a workflow, or even talk about 
it) PDF files are OK. I hope it this is clearer now!

I would even suggest the output of an imposition to be PDF only. But you 
may find this too restrictive. But again, please consider the workflow. 
To me, such a decision is similar to the one taken about false italic 
and bold. We get comments as to being too restrictive but I am ready to 
stand with that decision, having known too well what issues can occur 
when people play around with fonts that look good on screen but don't print.

Always ready to discuss, though. :)

> 
>> Also, from the printer point of view, crop and fold marks can be reduced 
>> to their simplest expression when you need to save paper (this happens 
>> *all* the time). Nice long crop marks are sometimes reduced to something 
>> as small as a dot on the real world printed sheet. When printing 
>> digital, we also often only use a dummy sheet with a keyline that we use 
>> to set the cutter. Of course, these keylines don't show on the printed 
>> job. The same applies for dotted lines used to show a fold. A 
>> hand-folded dummy is *always* a better solution and if a client doesn't 
>> provide it, we will do it ourselves anyway.
> 
> Since with this proposal the imposition will be done just like any other page in Scribus crop and fold marks will just be a matter of drawing (or deleting) lines. So a script could draw those, and sample scripts be provided to let users tweak them into what they want.

What I am saying is that what can seem to be right for a user might just 
not be what the printer wants or needs.
> 
>> Registration marks are *not* needed for digital printing since no plates 
>> are involved, no makeready, no adjustements on a per-job basis. The 
>> machine has to be set properly and checked out regularly and for this it 
>> has its own set of test pages with all the marks you can imagine.
> 
> Yes, but then again, registration marks and color bars are just a matter of drawing some stuff. It can easily be scripted.
> 
>> I said earlier in this discussion that imposition is a piece of its own. 
>> It is *not* a simple task and most printers I know are actually asking 
>> for single pages. They by far prefer to do the imposition according to 
>> their specific setup.
> 
> As I see it, this solution will allow for creation of complex impositions, including adjustment for creep etc. Many things might not have to be done by the scripts, some things can be done manually since the finished imposition will be possible to save as a Scribus document. For a printer ususally only a few impositions are used since it depends on their press and folders.

I have to insist on the fact that if we are going to put energy and 
coding time on an imposition solution, the first goal IMO should be for 
users printing on small digital printers. This is what we read the most 
on this mailing list. Booklets being the most asked feature. This is 
very reasonable and is what lots of people would expect from a solution 
like Scribus.

I am not even thinking of large digital printers because these pieces of 
equipement come with RIPs and software capable of doing just about any 
kind of imposition. This is generally bundled with the equipment.

As for work going to offset presses, I don't know any printer who is not 
equiped to do it, at least in our area. When you get a CTP it cost 
anything between $200,000 and $500,000. A good imposition solution 
(specialized software) cost anything between $4000-$7000. (Speaking in 
CAD) Printers *do* pay for this  and are willing to do so to avoid any 
delays and issues at this critical point. For about one percent of the 
cost of their system, it's something they barely discuss.

When a user provides its own imposed files, he takes all the 
responsibilities for the plates... thus, for the job itself. I don't 
know many people that want that. It is already something to look after 
the content and the layout.

I hope not to sound too discouraging. :)

Louis
> 
> /Peter
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