[scribus] tone marks
scribus.mantis.mail_in at a-bc.net
scribus.mantis.mail_in at a-bc.net
Thu May 16 19:29:35 UTC 2013
thank you all for Scribus. I am new to the list but not to Scribus. We
are publishing literacy materials for an African language. See my humble
success story on your wiki in 2012 and/or look here:
With recent development of the language, there are changes coming up for
the orthography. It will mean (one or more) tone marks on certain vowels
and possibly even certain consonants. (And it will help the population
to read more fluently, because ambiguity will be reduced.)
I have searched through some deep stuff, where your developers meet, and
what I understand is, that some time, there will be an entire re-write
of your "text-engine" or what you call that.
I can see that a lot of people from Asia are working and hoping for some
very complicated and wonderful functionality.
All we would need is some help, for correctly placing those famous
combining diacritical marks, listed as Unicode U+300 to U+036F. We only
need a fraction of those, and our vowels are these:
Sadly our alphabet is not located in just one code page (like Greek or
Arabic), we are using the "crumbs off the table" from various
Latin-tables and even from IPA; because a few years back, Africa missed
the moment to lobby for their languages. But maybe the problem of
placing "the combinings" is not so much dependent on what the
I am not firstly an IT pro, but rather a linguist, who has to tweak many
IT things to get our languages to work. I taught myself some Linux but
have never had any joy compiling anything, because our internet is very
very very slow and I am forever behind with my versions (now just went
to OpenSuse 12.1) and I tend to always lack some crucial packets...
I am using Scribus 1.4.2 on OpenSuse and Windows 7 pro.
And I can follow instructions. If you could point me to some
documentation about what I need to get or how to go about placing those
tone marks nicely centred above my characters, that would be swell. If I
have specific hope for some precise tool or plug-in or version, I have
partners, who could download it and letter-mail it to me by SD-card.
I will attach some test-data, which was made by colleagues a while ago.
Our needs are much less, but it gives you an idea. Just copy&paste that
into a recent LibreOffice with a well-stocked font (like Andika), and it
should look "bad", but nicely so.
Then paste it into Scribus 1.4.2 (my latest) and the markers will go
wild (sideways). Not meant as a criticism.
I am aware that there were threads somewhere about much harder stuff. I
have patience and I see a great perspective for Scribus with a modern
text engine, and I will stay a faithful user, even training young
Africans to produce stuff. What I am hoping for right-now is some idea
for a temporary fix. Even if it involves some tricks or manual work, we
could maybe use those tricks, while we wait, for a better solution.
Example: I have found out that I can go with my cursor into a text and
manually grab (select) just one combining-character (it sadly turns
almost invisible when selected) and then I can manually move it sideways
with / Properties / Text / Advanced Settings / Manual Tracking.
This method would work for our headings, but might kill me for a
twenty-page A3-size magazine. So the tricks I am hoping for would be
maybe instructions on how to do a macro: Search for any vowel "e"
followed by U+0301 and select the U+0301 and track it to -19%. I hope
you understand what I mean.
In real life, tone marks mainly have to go on the first vowel of
certain words, but most syllables are CV, so it mainly involves lower
case vowels. And we got only 10 of those and not more than hight-tone
and low-tone or no-tone, with possibly a combination of two tone marks
(nine possible combinations). So that would mean a complex macro or
running a batch of up to 90 macros.
I am getting long here, sorry. Maybe there is a much more elegant
solution out there.
Thank you very much for considering this request. Please do not be mad,
if it has already been resolved somewhere else. I did do searches, but
could not find anything. In that case please send me links.
To be honest: We cannot afford InDesign here. We do everything in
Scribus. And we are much involved with the key people who develop their
own language. If I was to find out, that using (two) tone marks is
"impossible" or "seriously beyond trained lay people" I might have the
opportunity to veto those new orthography ideas, as the
expert-expat-technician. "If it can't be done, we have to look for other
ways to write..."
But it would be a shame, if literacy and linguistics would be limited
by mere technical challenges. This is a francophone part of the world,
and French is using those accents "everywhere" (but truly only on a
limited number of vowels and with ready-made Unicode characters like
U+00c9, U+00ec , or U+0204). So people perceive those markers as a
valuable way of adding extra-information to their orthography. They
would have a hard time understanding, why it can be printed for French
but not for their local vowels.
Greetings, Martin Zaske
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1a. á Á á̧ Á̧ á̜ ạ́ Ạ́ Á̱ á̱ ą́ Ą́ À à ą̀ Ą̀ à̧ À̧ ạ̀ Ạ̀ à̱ À̱ Â â â̧ Â̧ ậ Ậ â̱ Â̱ ä Ä ä́ Ä́ ä̀ Ä̀ ä̂ Ä̂ ä̌ Ä̌ ä̃ Ä̃ ä̱ Ä̱ ǎ Ǎ ǎ̧ Ǎ̧ ạ̌ Ạ̌ ǎ̱ Ǎ̱ Ă ă Ā ā Ā́ Ā̂ ā̂ ã Ã ã́ Ã́ ã̀ ã̀ Ã̀ ã̂ Ã̂ ạ̃ Ạ̃ Ą ą A̧ a̧ A̜ a̜ Ạ ạ A̰ a̰ a̱ A̱
1b. ɑ́ ɑ̱́ ɑ̀ ɑ̂ ɑ̈ ɑ̌ ɑ̆ ɑ̄ ɑ̄̂ ɑ̃ ɑ̃ ɑ̃̀ ɑ̊ ɑ̱ Ɑ́ Ɑ̀ Ɑ̂ Ɑ̌
1c. ǽ æ̰
2. b̃ B̃ Ḅ ḅ
3a. ċ Ċ Č c̄ C̄ Ç ç c̱ C̱ č̣
3b. ɔ́ ɔ̀ ɔ̂ ɔ̈ ɔ̈́ ɔ̈̀ ɔ̱̈ ɔ̌ ɔ̄ ɔ̃ ɔ̃̀ ɔ̰ ɔ̱ ɔ᷆ ɔ᷇ Ɔ́ Ɔ̀ Ɔ̂ Ɔ̈ Ɔ̈́ Ɔ̈̀ Ɔ̱̈ Ɔ̌ Ɔ̃ Ɔ̰ Ɔ̱
4. ḍ Ḍ ḏ Ḏ ð̣
5a. é É ȩ́ Ȩ́ ẹ́ Ẹ́ é̱ É̱ ę́ Ę́ è È ę̀ Ę̀ ȩ̀ Ȩ̀ ẹ̀ Ẹ̀ è̱ È̱ Ê ê ē̂ Ē̂ ȩ̂ Ȩ̂ ệ Ệ ê̱ Ê̱ ë Ë ë̱́ Ë̱́ ë́ Ë́ Ë̀ ë̀ ë̂ Ë̂ ë̃ Ë̃ Ë̱ ë̱ ě Ě ȩ̌ ẹ̌ ě̱ ĕ Ĕ Ē ē ē̂ ẽ Ẽ ẽ́ Ẽ́ ẽ̀ Ẽ̀ ẽ̂ Ẽ̂ ẹ̃ Ẹ̃ Ę ę Ȩ ȩ Ẹ ẹ Ḛ ḛ e̱ E̱ Ę ę e᷆ e᷇
5b. Ɛ́ ɛ́ Ɛ̀ ɛ̀ Ɛ̂ ɛ̂ Ɛ̈ ɛ̈ ɛ̈́ Ɛ̈́ Ɛ̈̀ ɛ̈̀ Ɛ̱̈ ɛ̱̈ ɛ̌ ɛ̄ ɛ̃ Ɛ̃ Ɛ̰ ɛ̰ Ɛ̱ ɛ̱ ɛ᷆ ɛ᷇
5c. Ǝ́ ǝ́ Ǝ̀ ǝ̀ ǝ̂ Ǝ̈ ǝ̈ ǝ̌ ǝ̄ ǝ̃ Ǝ̃ Ǝ̰ ǝ̰
6. f̃ F̃ f̣ F̣
7. ġ Ġ g̈ G̈ ḡ Ḡ G̣ g̣ G̱ g̱
8. ḣ Ḣ ẖ H̱
9a. í Í ī́ Ī́ Í̧ í̧ í̜ ị́ Ị́ Í̱ í̱ ì Ì ĩ̀ į̀ Į̀ ì̧ Ì̧ ị̀ Ị̀ ì̱ Ì̱ î Î ī̂ Ī̂ Î̧ ị̂ Ị̂ î̱ Î̱ Ï ï ḯ Ḯ ï̀ Ï̀ ï̂ Ï̂ ï̃ Ï̃ ï̱ Ï̱ ǐ Ǐ Ǐ̧ ǐ̧ ị̌ ǐ̱ Ĭ ĭ Ī ī Ī̀ ī̂ ĩ ĩ ĩ Ĩ ĩ́ Ĩ́ Ĩ̀ ĩ̀ Ĩ̂ ĩ̂ ị̃ ị̃ Ị̃ Į į I̧ i̧ i̜ i̜̱ Ị ị Ḭ ḭ I̱ i̱ i᷆ i᷇
9b. ɨ́ Ɨ́ ɨ̀ Ɨ̀ ɨ̂ Ɨ̂ ɨ̈ Ɨ̈ Ɨ̌ ɨ̌ ɨ̄ Ɨ̄ ɨ̃ ɨ̰ Ɨ̰ Ɨ̱ ɨ̱
9c. ɩ́ Ɩ́ ɩ̀ Ɩ̀ ɩ̂ Ɩ̂ ɩ̌ ɩ̃ Ɩ̃ ɩ̰ Ɩ̰ ɩ᷆ ɩ᷇
10. j̃ j̣ J̣
11. k̇ K̇ K̄ k̄ Ḳ ḳ ḵ Ḵ
12. Ḷ ḷ L̥ l̥ ḻ Ḻ
13. Ḿ ḿ m̀ M̀ m̂ m̄ M̄ m̃ M̃ Ṃ ṃ M̱ m̱
14a. Ń ń ǹ Ǹ n̂ N̄ Ñ Ṇ ṇ Ṉ ṉ
14b. ɲ́ ɲ̄
14c. Ŋ́ ŋ́ Ŋ̀ ŋ̀ Ŋ̂ ŋ̂ ŋ̃ Ŋ̃ Ŋ̣ ŋ̣
15a. ó Ó ó Ó ṓ Ṓ Ó̧ ó̧ ó̜ Ọ́ ọ́ ó̱ Ó̱ Ǫ́ ǫ́ ò Ò Ṑ õ̀ ǫ̀ Ǫ̀ ò̧ Ò̧ ọ̀ Ọ̀ ò̱ Ò̱ Ô ô ō̂ ô̧ Ô̧ Ộ ộ ô̱ Ô̱ ö Ö ö́ Ö́ ö̀ Ö̀ Ö̂ ö̃ Ö̃ ö̱ Ö̱ ǒ Ǒ ǒ̧ Ǒ̧ ọ̌ Ọ̌ ǒ̱ Ǒ̱ Ŏ ŏ Ŏ Ō ō ō Ṑ õ Õ Õ ṍ Ṍ õ̀ Õ̀ Õ̂ ọ̃ Ọ̃ Ǫ ǫ O̧ o̧ O̜ o̜ O̜̱ Ọ ọ O̰ o̰ o̱ O̱ Ǫ ǫ o᷆ o᷇
15b. ɵ́ ǿ Ǿ ø̱ Ø̱
15c. œ́ œ̀ œ̂ œ̌
16. ṗ Ṗ p̄ P̄ p̃ P̃ P̱
18. ř r̃ R̃ Ṛ ṛ r̥ Ṟ ṟ
19. ṡ Ṡ š Š ṣ̌ Ş ş Ṣ ṣ
20. Ṫ ṫ T̄ t̄ Ţ ţ ṭ Ṭ ṯ Ṯ
21a. ú Ú Ū́ Ú̧ ú̧ ú̜ ụ́ Ụ́ Ú̱ ú̱ ù Ù ù̃ ù̧ Ù̧ ụ̀ Ụ̀ ù̱ Ù̱ Û û ū̂ Ū̂ û̧ Û̧ ụ̂ Ụ̂ û̱ Û̱ ü Ü ǘ̱ Ǘ̱ ǘ Ǘ ǜ Ǜ ü̂ ü̃́ Ü̃́ ü̃ ü̃ Ü̃ ü̱ Ü̱ ǔ Ǔ ǔ̧ Ǔ̧ ụ̌ Ụ̌ ǔ̱ Ǔ̱ ŭ Ŭ ū Ū Ū̀ ũ Ũ ṹ Ṹ ũ̀ Ũ̀ ũ̂ ụ̃ Ụ̃ U̧ u̧ U̜ u̜ u̜̱ Ụ ụ Ṵ ṵ u̱ U̱
21b. ʉ́ ʉ̀ ʉ̂ ʉ̈ ʉ̌ ʉ̱ Ʉ́ Ʉ̀ Ʉ̂ Ʉ̈ Ʉ̌ Ʉ̱
21c. Ʊ́ ʊ́ Ʊ̀ ʊ̀ Ʊ̂ ʊ̂ Ʊ̌ ʊ̌
22a. ṽ Ṽ Ṿ ṿ
22b. ʋ́ Ʋ́ ʋ̀ Ʋ̀ ʋ̂ Ʋ̂ ʋ̃ Ʋ̃ ʋ̰ Ʋ̰
23. ẅ Ẉ ẉ w̰ w̱ W̱ w̱
24. x̱ X̱
25. Ỵ ỵ
27. Ź ž Ž ẓ̌ z̆ Z̆ ẓ̆ Ẓ̆ z̃ Z̃ Ẓ ẓ
28. ˩˦˥˧˨ ꜖꜓꜒꜔꜕
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