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<br><div><div>Am 28.07.2008 um 19:57 schrieb Louis Desjardins:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">2008/7/28 "Christoph Schäfer" <<a href="mailto:christoph-schaefer@gmx.de" target="_blank">christoph-schaefer@gmx.de</a>>:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi guys,</blockquote><div><br>Hi Christoph,<br><br>I have copied below the content of your attached file because I think it's going to be easier for anyone entering this discussion to add their comments.<br>...<br><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">Editable Items on Master Page – Proposal for the User Interface<br><br><br>1. Editable items on master pages is certainly one of the most requested features. Here I want to discuss how it can be done in a user-friendly way. Both QXP and ID offer this feature, but I don't think Scribus should follow their path here, as the feature seems to have been implemented with no sane or a masochistic user in mind. I really think this important feature can be implemented much more transparent to the user (literally, as you can read below).<br> <br><br>2. The first thing that can be done is not directly related, and it's just a tweak or two to the UI. Its purpose is to make access to master pages easier. Two tweaks are required: First, list all master pages in the page list, so that the master page can be directly edited by selecting it in the list. This would have the same effect as selecting the master page in the Document Outline. Second, it would be nice to have a button beside the page list that would open the master page of the currently selected page for editing. Again, technically the same as opening in the document outline, except that the user doesn't have to find out which master page is used for the current page.<br> <br></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Yes, that sounds very sensible.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"><br>3. When it comes to editing an item only on the current page, there should be a second button to switch on the editing mode for master page items on the currently selected page. There should also be a spin box to set the opacity of the actual page content, so that users can check how changes to the master page will affect the layout as a whole. Default should be 0%, so that the content is invisible.<br> <br></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I don't follow your opacity explanation there.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"><br>4. To disconnect an item from the master page and use it only on the current page, one could use the "Send to Layer" feature: Each document has at least one layer, so that sending the item to "Background" (or any other layer in the current document) should be enough to remove the item from the master page.<br> <br></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>That's unintuitive I think. </div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"><br>5. Once the editing is finished, the user would have to click on the edit button in the status bar again. Scribus would then bring up a dialog similar to the current "Apply Master Page" dialog.<br>Options:<br> a) Apply Changes to the Current Page<br> b) Apply Changes to the Master Page<br>c) Apply to all Odd Pages (ie. those that use the master page)<br>d) Apply to all Even Pages (ie. those that use the master page)<br>e) Apply to the following Pages: (ie. those that use the master page, single pages and range)<br> <br></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><br><div>Too complicated IMHO</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">6. This would be consistent with many other Scribus dialogs, and it would also be much easier than in InDesign. It would also require a minimum of mouse clicks: one click to enter the editing mode for items on a page, two clicks to confirm the changes. Plus, it's also quite flexible.<br> <br>Comments are welcome.<br></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><div><br></div><div>Ok, let me throw in my thoughts:</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>"From object styles to master objects"</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On our roadmap we have the extension of the current inheritable style system from char/paragraph styles to line styles, table styles, cell styles, frame styles, ... to object styles.</div><div><br></div><div>A style is just a collection of settings, where each setting can be set or not set. If a setting is not set, it's inherited from the surrounding element (char settings from the paragraph style, paragraph settings from the document).</div><div><br></div><div>That's the situation without named styles. When the "based on" field contains the name of a style, undefined settings are taken from that style instead of from the surrounding element.</div><div><br></div><div>Ok, so let's say we have object styles which describe all settings of a pageitem, including position (normally we wouldn't want that in a style, but read on).<br></div><div><br></div><div>Now, instead of using a named object style for an object, we could also change the masterpage mechanism such that page items have a "based on" property which points to the corresponding master page item. Those page items would be fully editable locally. Changing the corresponding master page item would automatically change the settings of the descendant page items, unless they were redefined locally. Similar to the "Broom" Button for paragraph styles there would be an option to reset all settings to the masterpage item's defaults.</div><div><br></div><div>Applying a masterpage to a page would mean creating additional objects on the page which are based on the corresponding master page items. Those items would be locked by default, so editing a masterpage item locally means unlocking that item first. There should be another lock mode which fixes all settings except for content (text or images).</div><div><br></div><div>Deleting such an item would remove the item just from this page. There should be an option to recreate items which were deleted that way.</div><div><br></div><div>Applying another master page would remove the additional objects unless they were changed locally. Locally changed objects would stay on the page but loose their automatic masterpage connection (or they could be deleted anyway, what do you think?).</div><div><br></div><div>That mechanism should also work for hierarchical masterpages (is there already a feature request for this? :-) ) and for more than one masterpage per page. Come to think about it, </div><div>it's also very similar to Inkscape's clone objects.</div><div><br></div><div>/Andreas</div><div><br></div></body></html>